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Post by Eggnchips on Jun 30, 2006 22:16:06 GMT
they created the term Progressive Metal. Ask Paul - he could easily tell you better than i can. and Stratovarius are Power Metal.
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scurvekano
Rock Lord
Commodore Paddy of Secret Pirate Island, DRA
Posts: 869
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Post by scurvekano on Jul 1, 2006 20:00:55 GMT
Yeas. And so are Dragonforce...
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Post by hisnameispaul on Jul 6, 2006 10:44:54 GMT
I agree with Mike. (the way i see it...): When prog. first started, it was in the form of progressive rock, having had a kick from the beatles sgt. peppers (perhaps), and really took form in what i see as the first prog rock album, Court of the Crimson King by King Crimson. this was all really in the last year of the sixties. and of course, prog metal couldn’t exist, because metal didn't truly appear on the scene until a decade or so later (it was really birthed at the same time as prog, '69 with sabbath, but took until the 80's before it was commonplace enough for prog to latch onto it). so through the 70's we had commonplace rock music with a twist, elements that made it into progressive rock. into the 80's metal was stealing the spotlight... prog rock took a back seat (in comparison with the 70's), and it wasn't until the late 80's (perhaps mid, 85+) that prog rock started getting heavier, in influence of the metal music that had now grown. I'm not saying that Dream Theater were THE first band to ever think up the simple idea of ‘progging’ up metal music instead of rck music (making prog rock with heavier riffs perhaps), but they were undoubtedly the first to establish themselves as a band doing primarily just that (alongside Queensryche some say). they were among the first, and the first band to become big enough to change/evolve the prog rock movement into prog metal - a subtle difference, but still a genre in its own right. so it is fair to say that Dream Theater 'created' prog metal - although the credit should really go to the creators of prog rock, since prog metal is an inevitable evolution. well, that’s my take on it anyway. agree? or not?
since writing this, i have read the 1st page... when i say dream theater, i mean all the albums up untill 6 degrees... which is didgy in itself. lets be safe and refer to images and words, or awake. THATS prog metal defined.
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Post by hisnameispaul on Jul 6, 2006 10:46:17 GMT
oh, by the way... the most detailed and well researched place on the web for prog is here: www.progarchives.com/Progressive-rock.aspsome different views from my own, but its all backed up and a good read. first rate info.
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Post by Eggnchips on Jul 6, 2006 21:26:08 GMT
to me, Queensryche arent really proggy at all - after hearing a couple of albums they remind me more of a led zep kinda genre than a prog band...
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Post by hisnameispaul on Jul 8, 2006 9:57:54 GMT
i agree, i dont know why they are always considered DT's only rivals in setting up prog metal. theyr just a rock band? am i listening to the wrong albums?? dont answer. i dont want to listen to them. i've just got two underground mr. bungle albums, goddamit i love america, and the raging wrath of the easter bunny. they're all i want to listen to just now.
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Post by jezmaster0 on Jul 27, 2006 11:22:11 GMT
I don't like DT too much anymore, but yeah they created progressive metal. I mean shit if you think Stratovarius are more progressive than DT well...there must be some communication problem. YES DT have descended in to blindly ripping off their influences, their lyrics have become worse and worse and their focus on technicality over actual songwriting has increased has time goes on. Off the top of my head here are a few different type of "prog moments" that stick out.
BUT Pull Me Under - good chorus, good solo, DTs most poppy song. The outro that cuts off suddenly, sounds like a mistake on the cd? Well the song is based on Hamlet, the fleetingness of life and all that. The abrupt ending represents that sudden stop death can bring.
Metropolis Pt 1 - One of the best shredding solos ever (and I HATE shredding), cracking riffs, uplifitng ending, and typical prog metal bolloks for lyrics.
Under A Glass Moon - One of DTs few instinces of lyrical genius. From what I remember it's about John's experiences of sitting in his car waiting for some big event, or contemplating something. Anyhoo the glass moon of the title is actually a street lamp, which should help most of the other imagery start to fall in to place. The intro sounds proggy and weird (the drum and bass rhythem anyway) when it's actually written in 4/4. Little things like that.,
I mean really, not only did DT pioneer this style, taking influences from people like Genesis and Marillion, and gave it a harder edge, which is progressive in the sense of forging new musical ground either for themselves or music in general, you also get the over the top musical technicality, use of music theory, and mind bending fusion of genres.
I mean christ don't even like DT and I would NEVER call them "pop with electric guitar". Boring overblown nonsense at times certainly, but really dude it just seems like you've not listened to Images and Words at all.
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Post by Eggnchips on Jul 27, 2006 11:45:08 GMT
i agree - however the more metal side of DT can be heard in Awake, and albums post Scenes. However i think now with the inclusion of Rudess its more of a "were a supergroup and we know it" kind of attitude and as such the music really has suffered, however Six Degrees (the track) is possible one of the greatest musical achievements ever. A fusion of excellent song writing and lyrics, as well as including a variety of genres (from the more Triumvirat Overture to a hard gritty metal riff in The Test that Stumped them All). Definitely worth a listen.
Basically - it kicks ass.
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Post by Pippignomie on Jul 27, 2006 13:28:32 GMT
Gillybean agrees with what blondielocks said
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Post by H on Jul 29, 2006 0:09:55 GMT
OK, Patrick I USED to like you. I fucking love Dream Theater (minus the obvious *coughlabrietwattyassbanditmotherfuckerahem*). John Petrucci - a shredder, a blues guitarist, a space age guitarist, a virtuoso, a classical guitarist and a downright legned all rolled into one. Mike Portnoy - yes he's totally up his own jacksy, but hell can he play! John Myung - one of the world's most underated bassist - fucking awesome, could give Billy Sheehan a run for his money. Jordan Ruddess - the day I hear a better rock keyboardist, ill shit my pants so hard that ill be walking like a neanderthal the rest of my life! Thats all I really have to say.
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Post by Pippignomie on Jul 29, 2006 0:17:48 GMT
You have such a lovely way of wording things don't you?
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scurvekano
Rock Lord
Commodore Paddy of Secret Pirate Island, DRA
Posts: 869
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Post by scurvekano on Jul 29, 2006 20:30:37 GMT
*sniff* Henry doesn't like me anymore! WAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!
It's not like DT are The Worst Band Ever. You guys clearly love them, so I'm in a minority- they must be doing something right. They just aren't my kind of thing, I guess- I'd rather listen to The Wall again for my proggy fix, at least then I don't fall asleep. Much.
Don't hate me. Please?
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Post by Eggnchips on Jul 29, 2006 22:44:20 GMT
THE WALL?!?!?! omg - leave the prog boards now. There are much better Floyd albums to be listened to. Like any of their others.
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Post by jezmaster0 on Jul 30, 2006 0:34:31 GMT
Hey back off from the Wall (fuck Patrick and I are agreeing on something about music! OH NOES!) yes there are better Floyd albums, but that doesn't mean it sucks ass. It's in their top 5 (at number 5 certainly, but there you go) Hell I think we should show the movie at Rocksoc sometime, with a suitable drinking game. What do you guys think? Oh and H everyone knows Kevin Moore is better than Jordon. And just skimming over the page, did someone just call fucking Dragonforce progressive? How the fuck are they "progressing" music at all? Do you fucktards even know what progressive means?
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scurvekano
Rock Lord
Commodore Paddy of Secret Pirate Island, DRA
Posts: 869
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Post by scurvekano on Jul 30, 2006 11:01:26 GMT
Hey back off from the Wall (fuck Patrick and I are agreeing on something about music! OH NOES!) yes there are better Floyd albums, but that doesn't mean it sucks ass. It's in their top 5 (at number 5 certainly, but there you go) Hell I think we should show the movie at Rocksoc sometime, with a suitable drinking game. What do you guys think? Oh and H everyone knows Kevin Moore is better than Jordon. And just skimming over the page, did someone just call fucking Dragonforce progressive? How the fuck are they "progressing" music at all? Do you fucktards even know what progressive means? It was me taking the piss- I found a site (AllMusic.com, I think) that said Dragonforce were prog, so I put it up in the prog boards to amuse/annoy eggnchips. Not that I need to try... And you'd be hard pushed not to class Floyd as prog. Where else would you put them?
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